RPG Walk : Grid or 8-Way?

[hartnell]

Which would you perfer in an 8-bit style RPG?

Grid movement/8-way movement/4-direction but no grid?

-- Shawn

[thaaks]

What do you consider an 8-bit style RPG?

Something like Ultima 1 to 5? Then I would say 4 direction grid movement.
Something like a roguelike? Then it's 8-way grid movement.
Something like an old Zelda version? Then 4 or 8 directions and no grid.

You can even combine smooth (no grid) and grid movement: Assume you have tiles of size 32x32 that form your grid. Then you can move your characters 2 or 4 pixels and stop them on each modulo 32 grid position.

It all depends  ;)

[hartnell]

Zelda is NOT an RPG. :)

http://gamedesign.wikicomplete.info/zelda-is-not-an-rpg

[Bustaballs]

I beg to differ. Zelda is most definitely an RPG. =)

Hearts represent levels. You get new equipment and become more powerful as a result. You have stats, though they aren't displayed to the user. You play the role of a boy in his attempts to save the land of Hyrule. It plays just like an action RPG.

I love this debate. It'll never end.

[hartnell]

Did you even read the article? *sigh*

You have stats, though they aren't displayed to the user.

And how are these stats weighted to produce a probability of success or failure?

Zelda has stats like Space Invaders has stats. Neither use an RPG Stat system.

It plays just like an action RPG

It plays like an action adventure game that uses ability keys. Er.. like Metroid.

-- hartnell

[Tifu]

Space Invaders doesn't have stats. You never get stronger or faster through experience like Link does. He kills a boss, he gains strength.

The article was refusing to load everytime I came to this thread until today. I don't see why we have to agree with it anyway, Zelda isn't an RPG because Link never misses? Uh... right. The second article talks about conversations - I don't remember FFVII having the ability to ask NPCs about Inns like you can in a pen&paper rpg which the article is comparing Zelda to, that's not very fair - of course you have more RPG elements in a penpaper rpg than a videogame. The article even says "In fact, even video game RPGs don't involve any roleplaying." So you can't win - there are NO videogame rpgs apparently! Square Enix must be disappointed to know this.

I'd agree it is an action-adventure game, but i'd say the game certainly has RPG elements. Why does it have to be one thing or the other? The lines between genres can be blurred.

[Bustaballs]

Well said.

Western RPGs are the closest thing to real RPGs that exist in videogames.

AD&D games (<3 Planescape: Torment), Fallout series, Elder Scrolls series, etc.

Diablo not so much.

[hartnell]

Tifu, you're making arguments that are all made by people who haven't thought about it much. That's the reason I had to write 3 articles on the subject!

Yes, Space Invaders has stats. The number of lives is a stat. The score is a stat.

In Galaga, the ship improves itself through "experience" by shooting down an enemy that has captured a fighter, giving it dual barrels. It is not an RPG.

The problem with the "Zelda is an RPG" people (no offense Tifa) is that they just don't know what an RPG is to begin with and tend to talk about Zelda in a non-technical way a PLAYER would, not the way a game designer or programmer would.

Butaballs, actually, Diablo is a very rare example of an "Action RPG". It is probably THE single best example of an Action RPG. It has weighted stats used to determine the outcome of actions. You can have a collision with the player's weapon and a monster -- and still miss.

-- Shawn

[Bustaballs]

Real RPGs (not videogames):

Wikipedia has a good explination:

A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters and collaboratively create or follow stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, players can improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games.

So, as you can see, JRPGs as well as Diablo aren't even close to real RPGs. RPGs aren't linear.

[hartnell]

I covered that in the articles. :)

-- Shawn

[thaaks]

Wasn't the original question about the RPG walk instead of "what is an RPG and what game does have stats or not"?
Guys, you're completely off topic here  ;D

And Shawn, did you come up with a decision what kind of RPG walk you prefer or you'll choose?

Cheers,
Tommy

[Bustaballs]

I covered that in the articles. :)

-- Shawn

Aye, but regardless, it's still a completely opinionated subject. I could easily write about why each of your points is wrong, but it's been done over and over so many times. Some see Zelda as an RPG, some see it only as an action/adventure game. Too many people have their own biases and are too hard headed to alter their decision on specific topic. We're prime examples of it. =P

[Zenn]

4 - directional movement: and Zelda is an RPG ...no wait! -Action adventure ... no RPG, yeah I'm going with RPG, final answer :)

[hartnell]

You didn't want to be a millionare, did you? :) lol.

-- Shawn

[Makeii Runoru]

Which would you perfer in an 8-bit style RPG?

Grid movement/8-way movement/4-direction but no grid?

-- Shawn

I like 8 way movement as long as it doesn't involve tile-movement. As with "Zelda: A Link to the Past," you were able to walk in 8 directions. I don't however like it when a character's image is defined at diagonal directions. This was not a factor in this Zelda, but it was with Children of Mana. If you specifically wanted to attack at a diagonal angle, you had to make sure that you released both buttons at the same time, or else the character will switch back to the last button held. I know that both of these games are not 8-bit style, though.

Grid movement is fun sometimes if playing a "Tactics" RPG. Fire Emblem is one example. It's sort of like playing chess with swords and shields and magic.

4-way movement with no grid can be frustrating sometimes. IF you think of a square, and if you start at the bottom left corner but want to get to the top right, you'd really want to cut through diagonally instead of having to walk up and then right, or if clipping was not involved, have to keep hitting up and then right alternatively to create a jagged diagonal effect.

(By clipping, I give example to two games: Adventures of Lolo and the original Zelda for NES, where Lolo will automatically move in 1/2 square tiles each time he is moved, and Link will walk to the nearest half-square before changing from horizontal to vertical direction, or vice versa.)

--

If for an 8-bit style RPG, I'd probably have to say 8-way movement, as long as character direction is defined for only vertical and horizontal directions.