UnderwareDESIGN

 This shot is of the UW3D software render engine ported into PlayBASIC. While there's a few things that need to be corrected in the port. It Does make for an impressive tech demo for an interpreted language.

This version of the engine supports,

 * Flat/Gouaud Shading
 * Near/Far plane Z Clipping
 * Freq Sorted Z buffering (pre polygon)
 * Objects
 * Height map Collision, even LOS (line Of Sight)..

Obviously because it's a software 3D engine it's not going to be all that fast.  But then again I haven't opt'd anything really, just dumped it across. Took most of last night :)


Video

 




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Hello Kevin,

Is this some sort of experiment of yours or are you making a foundation for a 3D version of Play Basic ?  :)

Have a nice day,

Tomaz

Yeah it's just a little (8500 line) experiment.  Just wanted to sort of show that even though PB is an interpreted language (at this point), it's still fairly capable.  Now, Obviously writing a 3D engine IN PB probably isn't the best idea.  But it's a good experiment, none the less..  

  Just so there is no confusion though, NO this is not PB3D related.

Hello Kevin,

QuoteYeah it's just a little (8500 line) experiment.

:o

I'm speechless. You must be a very determined person to put so much work in a "little experiment".  :)

Have a nice day,

Tomaz

Nah, it's just a port of an old DB classic project, to test the theory :)

uw3D

Flat shaded + objects

impressive :)

Pretty much finished the port yesterday.  The only real issue has been the array cache manager.  Which is the fundamental storage media behind the Mesh/Object library. Since standard DB classic didn't have memory banks.    Which explains why objects wouldn't work without runtime errors.   It is frustrating though, as since this engine was written in DB to mimic DB, as the basis of Visible Worlds  (Visible Worlds Home Page (http://www.underwaredesign.com/?page=programs.Visible-Worlds)) there was and awful lot of illegal memory accesses occurring in some of the flawed logic in the original version and  DB just ignores them.    

Anyway the mesh/object engine supports various primitives,

* Basic Primitives
  - Cubes, Boxes, Triangle, Sphere's, Cones, Cylinders, Disc, Torus, Planes, Vertex planes
* Custom meshes
* Real time Vertex/Face editing
* Dual sided faces
* Two rotated mode XYZ,ZYX

The picture above is a flat shaded pic the full thing running in PB.. I've tweaked some of the routines to make them more PB friendly, this has allowed for the Z depth to be increased.  It'll never be huge in this form though.  But it does make for an interesting tech demo.

Very neat for being in Playbasic, but I bet you could make something deadly cool using DirectX and what not inside C++, but this just shows how powerful playbasic is.

Oh yeah and I could not  stand how darkbasic had little or no error trapping for arrays over bounds    :blink:

Software 3D Render Engine Tech Demo

 Well, figured i'd better post a version of this running.  It runs pretty well in flat shaded mode, gouraud is pretty hopeless (single figures frame rates)  as you'd expect.  Mostly because there's no gouruad polygon commands in PlayBASIC (yet), then edge translation is lot of work for the interpreter.  But I'm pretty happy with it's performance at this point, of course when we more to the second / third generation VM's  or support compiling to machine code,  we'll revisit this test.

Anyway, just remember the engine is entirely written in PlayBasic V1.06


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Update  UW3D running PB1.068

 Here's a shot of the UW3D tech demo running in PB1.068.   Since PB now has gouraud shading built in, the demo runs much better now.   It's great little show case for what can be done, if you explore the PB command set.

Software 3D Engine Tech Demo V0.20

  Here's a re-issued version of our UW3D software engine (tech demo) running in PB1.068.   Which has had a massive speed boost care of the new polygon rendering commands.

Anyway, just remember the engine is entirely written in software in PlayBasic V1.068 (beta)..


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Get Updated Version (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=490.msg14015#msg14015)

  Get Updated Version (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=490.msg14015#msg14015)

UW3D in PBFX V1.64 alpha

 With the addition of hardware rendering  in PBFX 1.64 I dug up this old chestnut.   The demo code is unchanged, the only difference is that it's running on PBFX 1.64b (Alpha).    As per the original demo, all geometry rotation / frustum culling / polygon clipping / sorting is being reforming in PB code,  it's not using anything built in devices of PBFX, (ie. like vertex and mesh translation which are added long after this demo was written)

 One benefit of rendering with 3D hardware is that you get virtually free alpha blending.  In PBFX 1.64 the triangle primitives (Tri / GouraudTri) can now use the Ink mode properties.  So they can be drawn using transparency.  Which can be seen the following screen shots.  

  Now given the original demo was never designed to batch triangles out to direct 3D, so each triangle here is drawn as an separate 3D scene... Which is NO/NO in direct 3D .     Even so,  it's still fast enough for testing purposes.

Sounds cooler than a polar bear's wotsits :D

Hi!

Yes that sounds really cool!

When is the release of PB 1.64 ?

What is "virtually free alpha blending"?


Greetings
stef

does this mean we can do hard-core alpha-blending effects on virtually everything/anything? I smell a revision of my flame particles  ;D Oh and I could fiddle with my game more, I guess...What about filling the screen with semi-transparent water without making everything scream to a halt (3-4 FPS at best.)?

@stef:
I Suppose this means a lot of things will be very fast considering it's not all in software anymore and utilizes your graphics card more. It's all done in your graphics card rather then having the CPU do most and sending it's work to the drawing surface. That's what I'm guessing, but I guess Kevin will have to fill us in.

QuoteWhat is "virtually free alpha blending"?

  You can blend at much the same speed as opaque rendering.    Obviously this will vary dramatically between video cards. 

Quotedoes this mean we can do hard-core alpha-blending effects on virtually everything/anything?

  To a degree, or more accurately, pretty much anything polygon based.  Some things aren't ie. shapes

QuoteWhat about filling the screen with semi-transparent water without making everything scream to a halt (3-4 FPS at best.)?

   erm,   This (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1038.0)  approach runs quite nicely without 3D.

   A similar approach was also used in the Rugby tech demos. Rugby Thread  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1137.0)

   The screen is split into two cameras.  All the polygons are batched to the scene, then we draw camera 1.  Camera 1 is attached to the video frame buffer.  Then camera 2. Which is attach to an fx frame buffer.  Once render we blit the bottom section to the screen.  Which allows this section of the screen to be blended with minimal impact.. 

QuoteI Suppose this means a lot of things will be very fast considering it's not all in software anymore and utilizes your graphics card more. It's all done in your graphics card rather then having the CPU do most and sending it's work to the drawing surface.

   In terms of opaque rendering, using polygons tends to be slower than the GPU's blitter.  PB has always been hardware accelerated for 2d blits, but the direct draw Blitter only has limited functionality.   For any functionality that can't be uniformally provided in hardware, software solutions have to be used.   

  If you use software and in particular blending (which require reading from both buffers source & destination) then you have to use off card surfaces like FX buffers.  Because you can't read video memory at speed on the PC.  Even over the PCX bus it's still 20 or worse times slower than system memory.     The bottle neck is mainly copying the frame buffer from system to video.

   Rendering images as 3D quads avoid the cpu reading the back buffer issue, since the memory is local to the gpu,  you've now limited to the hardware supported sizes, blend states and more importantly the number of texture state changes per each draw call.     Meaning, calling it too often slows it down dramatically!   

* Pro's

   - Generally Faster combination effects (filtering, rotation, alpha based blending) while rendering to the screen.

   - Avoids copying the frame buffer.


* Con's

  - Texture size/ Texture format/ Blend mode issues across different hardware.
  - Will chokes on too many state changes / draw calls.   
  - Can't render to off screen surfaces across the board..

   Anyway, the point is,  It's not merely an set and forget situation.

Card: NVidia Geforce FX 5600XT(128mb) (Wow, this is so old that no one sells it anymore  :'( )
My Pc is probably a good Low-grade benchmark, it's getting crusty.

Played with it some, I get an amazing 60-70 FPS for FOUR HUNDRED 64,128 alpha-blended images @ 640, 480, Obviously 32 bit, full-screen exclusive mode. I also get 4-5 FPS using Fx images in the same example in compiler 1.47.

Similar results or a bit lower for rotating and scaling the same amount of images.

Ink 1+32 -Dots, a 200 x 200 Box, or Circles seem to crawl to a halt though (15-20 Fps), of course, I'm probably doing something terribly/horrifically wrong as I just tried locking the buffer, drawing batches of them and unlocking. Tring a full screen primitive just results in FPs 1 (IF that).

There is a strange bug though, but of course you probably already know about it. Don't want to be your captain obvious, but I try loading a 3d image in when I first start playbasic and it goes into the buffer stretched out, cropped off and has it's colors inverted. (It seems to fix itself if I draw the image twice)


Is there anyway to manipulate/renderTO a 3d image without having to re-send it to the 3d card?

Hi!

That's really not bad :)

code below is just experimentally ( for BOTS )
but a slly question:
how can I limit the 'sun-particles' ( let's say a maximum of 200 on screen)

needs PB1.65 or above!


OpenScreen 800,600,32,2

Type particle
x#,y#
dx#,dy#
angle#
speed#
Radius
Colour
EndType


Dim Object As particle List

global sun
global ground

drawstuff()


Do
rendertoscreen
Cls RGB(0,0,255)
Print FPS()

Addpart()

LockBuffer

For Each Object()

Object.x#=Object.x#+Object.dx#
Object.y#=Object.y#+Object.dy#


If PointInBox(Object.x#,Object.y#,10,10,790,590)=False

Object = NULL
Continue  

EndIf

CircleC Object.x#,Object.y#,Object.Radius,True,Object.Colour

Next

UnLockBuffer


drawalphaimage sun,600-40+rnd(2),100-40+rnd(2),alpha#,1
drawalphaimage ground,0,300,1.0-alpha#,1

alpha#=sin(angle#)
alpha#=abs(alpha#)
angle#=angle#+0.2


Sync
Loop
function drawstuff()

sun=getfreeimage()
create3dimage sun,80,80
rendertoimage sun
CircleC 40,40,40,1,RGB(255,255,0)

ground=getfreeimage()
create3dimage ground,800,300
rendertoimage ground
cls RGB(0,140,200)


endfunction



Function Addpart()

For x= 0 To 6


Object = New particle
Object.X# =600
Object.y# =100
Object.Angle# =Rnd(360)
Object.Speed# =3
Object.dx# =Cos(Object.angle)*object.speed
Object.dy# =Sin(Object.angle)*object.speed

Object.Radius =2
Object.Colour  =RGB(255,255,0)

Next

EndFunction




Well, you just keep creating new particles instead of recycling old ones. Infact, if you ran this for a long time I bet you'd just crash the proggie- because you just keep eating up RAM. You have to manage your memory better or it will overflow.
Try making a typed array of 200 particles and give them a number 'life'. check each loop if any of the particles 'lifes' have expired and assign them new default values via a function if they have.

Hi!

Thx for reply
That's a 'type list' example; the particles are 'killed' when leaving screen.
'Object = NULL'
   
I normally prefer simple arrays or types, but wanted to try out lists (maybe more elegant)
but as said above I have a problem with limiting particlenumber

should be something like
Size = GetArrayElements(ThisArray(), DimensionIndex)


Greetings
stef

QuotePlayed with it some, I get an amazing 60-70 FPS for FOUR HUNDRED 64,128 alpha-blended images @ 640, 480, Obviously 32 bit, full-screen exclusive mode. I also get 4-5 FPS using Fx images in the same example in compiler 1.47.

See  Image Draw Modes  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1799.msg12982#msg12982)

Quote
Ink 1+32 -Dots, a 200 x 200 Box, or Circles seem to crawl to a halt though (15-20 Fps), of course, I'm probably doing something terribly/horrifically wrong as I just tried locking the buffer, drawing batches of them and unlocking. Tring a full screen primitive just results in FPs 1 (IF that).

See  Image Draw Modes  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1799.msg12982#msg12982)

Quote
There is a strange bug though, but of course you probably already know about it. Don't want to be your captain obvious, but I try loading a 3d image in when I first start playbasic and it goes into the buffer stretched out, cropped off and has it's colors inverted. (It seems to fix itself if I draw the image twice)

There are bugs ?.. gezzz  thanks caption obvious

QuoteIs there anyway to manipulate/renderTO a 3d image without having to re-send it to the 3d card?

  Render what ? 

Quotehow can I limit the 'sun-particles' ( let's say a maximum of 200 on screen)

You could,

  * use a some globals to keep track of the number of created/deleted items in the list.  . 

  * Make a function to count  through the list

   or adding a drawn counter to the render loop..


NumbOfParticles=0
For Each Object()

Object.x#=Object.x#+Object.dx#
Object.y#=Object.y#+Object.dy#


If PointInBox(Object.x#,Object.y#,10,10,790,590)=False

Object = NULL
Continue  

EndIf

CircleC Object.x#,Object.y#,Object.Radius,True,Object.Colour
inc NumbOfParticles
Next



Quoteshould be something like
Size = GetArrayElements(ThisArray(), DimensionIndex)

   Yeah, none of the array commands are aware that it's a list, so that'd return the container size atm.

   Add any ideas to this feature request  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1809.0)

Yes, with your code it's working

Use LMB and RMB for increase/decrease maxparticles (= number of particles)

needs PB1.65 or above


OpenScreen 800,600,32,2

Type particle
x#,y#
dx#,dy#
angle#
speed#
Radius
Colour
EndType


Dim Object As particle List

Global sun
Global ground
Global NumbOfParticles
Global MaxParticles=20

drawstuff()


Do
RenderToScreen
Cls RGB(0,0,255)
Print FPS()
Print MaxParticles
Print NumbOfParticles
Print GetArrayElements(object(),0)


If LeftMouseButton()=1
FlushMouse
MaxParticles=MaxParticles-5
EndIf
If RightMouseButton()=1
FlushMouse
MaxParticles=MaxParticles+5
EndIf

If MaxParticles<0 Then MaxParticles=0


If NumbOfParticles<MaxParticles
Addpart()
EndIf

LockBuffer

NumbOfParticles=0

For Each Object()

Object.x#=Object.x#+Object.dx#
Object.y#=Object.y#+Object.dy#


If PointInBox(Object.x#,Object.y#,10,10,790,590)=False

Object = NULL
Continue  

EndIf

CircleC Object.x#,Object.y#,Object.Radius,True,Object.Colour

Inc NumbOfParticles

Next

UnLockBuffer


DrawAlphaImage sun,600-40+Rnd(2),100-40+Rnd(2),alpha#,1
DrawAlphaImage ground,0,300,1.0-alpha#,1

alpha#=Sin(angle#)
alpha#=Abs(alpha#)
angle#=angle#+0.5


Sync
Loop
Function drawstuff()

sun=GetFreeImage()
Create3DImage sun,80,80
RenderToImage sun
CircleC 40,40,40,1,RGB(255,255,0)

ground=GetFreeImage()
Create3DImage ground,800,300
RenderToImage ground
Cls RGB(0,140,200)


EndFunction



Function Addpart()

For x= 0 To 6


Object = New particle
Object.X# =600
Object.y# =100
Object.Angle# =Rnd(360)
Object.Speed# =1
Object.dx# =Cos(Object.angle#)*object.speed#
Object.dy# =Sin(Object.angle#)*object.speed#

Object.Radius =4
Object.Colour  =RGB(255,255,0)

Next

EndFunction



thanks kevin. Yea Stef, I haven't played with lists yet so I wasn't 100% sure what was happening.

Truly an awsome feat to have a 3d engine in PB. Hope it comes out in time for my next project starting in October 2007. ;D

  While the method this actually uses, is fairly difficult I guess (ie. all of the geometry is rotated/clipped/sorted & draw in PB code).   building your own mini 3D engine in PB1.69 and above,  is actually rather trivial now using Sprite Entities a perspective sprite drawing.   

   Perspective Sprite Drawing  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/forums/index.php?topic=1807.15)

  At some point i'll be releasing an trimmed downversion of the UW3D engine as a Slib for PB1.70.  Effectively this will give you a basic 3d engine (pretty similar to Dark Basic Classic) to play with.   

I know it's been a while since I looked over PB, but...software 3D. Jeez.

That's fairly awesome.

Software 3D Render Engine Tech Demo V0.22 Update

  While picking through a list of old demos during a recent updating frenzy, this seemed like one of the most logical demos to rebuild in PlayBASIC V1.63h.   Since this type of demo puts great deal of strain on the PB runtime.  Each frame it has a mountain of vectex rotation / projection / clipping calculations to get through, not to mention drawing the scene at the end of it.   The while rendering uses built in features like  Tri / GouraudTri combined with the scene buffer for depth sorting,  everything else is just good old fashion PlayBASIC code.    

   The original port of this demo was to PlayBasic V1.05/V1.06  (two years ago),  the original code was written in DB about 2 years prior to that.   So it's old code and it shows.  While it's tempting to try and clean it up for users,  that seems like a lot of work for nothing (since PBFX 1.70 supports Direct3D!),  so rather i'm cleaning up the appearance.  Performance wise PlayBASIC V1.63h has enough code execution improvement to be able to do things like add  backdrop,   run it in higher resolution and increase  Z clipping plane distance.     Other cosmetics has have been smoothing the height map,  which removes the jiggered terrain appearance.  

   Anyway here's a few new pictures of this prehistoric demo :)...

 Update V0.24

    Cleaned up the demo a little more and have added menu's (title/screen mode/world settings) and update some terrain tidbits. So it's faster again. Added a second mode to the terrain to check if brute force meshing is quicker (Ie. See Terrain Demo in your example pack), turns out it's not.. Since the original version picks the section of the terrain it projects. So size doesn't really affect it.

  UW3D - PlayBASIC Software 3D Engine Tech Demo V0.24

    This demonstration shows complete software (no 3D hardware is used) render engine written entirely in PlayBASIC V1.63h.


Supports:

* Flat Shading.
* Gouruad shading.
* Z Clipping (near/far planes).
* Height Map Terrain.
* Dynamic objects (poly,cube,box,plane,sphere,disc,torus,tube,cone,vertex arrays)
* User Mesh Deformation.
* Scalable View Port



Demo Controls:


Mouse + Arrow Keys - Control Camera Direction (FPS style)

Function Keys - Change 3D engine options

SPACE - Return To RESTART DEMO

ESC - EXIT DEMO



Downloads:

[plink] Download  V0.24 (1.2 meg)  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/demos/3DRenderEngineDemo.zip)[/plink]


This is the original PB1.06 port from 2005 for comparison
[plink] Old Version(860k)  (http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/demos/3DRenderEngineDemo_OLD.zip)[/plink]

Old versions in DB and BB

[plink] DB Classic Version (http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/pub/TechDemos/UW3D_SoftwareRenderEngineV0_16DB.zip)[/plink]

[plink] BB2D Version (http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/pub/TechDemos/UW3D_SoftwareRenderEngineV0_21.zip)[/plink]   (adjust the camera distant back to 2550, which is the default in the PB tech)